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  • What can ROO do to stand out and actually be the goto option for Java projects

    Hey Guys,
    I would like to thank the ROO team for thinking about developer productivity and taking a step towards automating scaffolding.

    I have recently been evaluating Play framework for Java and Roo for a personal project and unfortunately even though Roo makes scaffolding easy, Play came out much more developer friendly and INTUITIVE for a start-up kind of an application. I did the initial scaffolding after deciding to give Roo a try and ended up using Play because Roo was consuming more time than i would expect to devote to get things going.

    That being said ROO has Spring backing and i love what Spring provided to the java community so i would like to see ROO succeed and prove a viable alternative in future iterations. Here are few suggestions which I hope ROO team can look at and provide answers to for the greater benefit of adopters.

    1) Web 2.0 App: Provide easy jquery integration along with samples of customizing the tiles and use standard 960 grid instead of an 800px grid. The admin app generated looks very ugly on a big monitor and fluid theme or a 960 theme (TWITTER BOOTSTRAP is very helpful) might help. It is hard to sell using DIJIT and DOJO in 2012 or not providing an easy way to swap out the toolkit (No offence to dojo folks). The whole stack of apache tiles, dojo, css is like living in 2001 and i absolutely loathed this.

    2) Generate ADMIN or CRUD later like Play does (IF YOUR APP NEEDS IT) via a command. Keeping this in mind modify the sample and add examples like Play's blog which are usable out of the box (MANY FOLKS are using the blog app as it is on production blogs). This inspires more confidence in someone who just wants to build an app over a weekend and this is where Rails and Play make it so much better. This will also be helpful to folks who just want to use the scaffolding aspect of generating a controller and view and probably adding it in respective xml files which is the most annoying, time consuming, irritating, error prone and un-debuggable aspect of spring.

    3) LESS/SASS integration: This will help in customizing and probably creating a theme framework down the line.

    4) Spring security add on with oauth providers (Google, Facebook, twitter etc.). Play modules like securesocial make it as simple as adding a command and also provide built in views to handle it.

    5) Customization of admin views, play makes it so simple to override and customize default admin CRUD pages and the documentation helps.

    I am hoping roo team takes this as a constructive suggestions rather than criticism and hopefully Roo will gain more adoption with time.

  • #2
    @retrofit,

    Very-very interesting... Could you please provide link(s) where I could review deployed web applications based on Play for Java.


    Thank you in advance.
    jD

    Comment


    • #3
      "Even the stack traces are stripped down and optimized to make it easier to solve problems. "

      Now, why Spring Framework doesn't have this by default is really beyond me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by retrofit View Post
        2) Generate ADMIN or CRUD later like Play does (IF YOUR APP NEEDS IT) via a command.

        3) LESS/SASS integration: This will help in customizing and probably creating a theme framework down the line.

        4) Spring security add on with oauth providers (Google, Facebook, twitter etc.). Play modules like securesocial make it as simple as adding a command and also provide built in views to handle it.

        5) Customization of admin views, play makes it so simple to override and customize default admin CRUD pages and the documentation helps.
        Yes, thank you!

        Comment


        • #5
          Is the 3rd party GWT support any good? That's kind of scary.

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you mean in Play or in Spring Roo?

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            • #7
              In Play. The GWT module is 3rd party. Roo has native GWT support.

              Comment


              • #8
                Guys,

                Definitely efficient and productive web development tools are very important...
                The final product -which is the deployed web app- should be included as well.

                Actual deployed Play web app would help to see how good really is.

                Where is the list?

                Thank you
                jD

                Comment


                • #9
                  playapps.net is built on play. There is a page which lists many sites using it. The creators themselves have posted how they have built many banking and financial apps using play as part of their projects with zenexity. you can also browse their forums where devs normally post their apps from time to time.

                  http://www.playframework.org/community/testimonials

                  if you want to see and learn follow their tutorial (yabe).

                  There is another thread on stackoverflow which talks about real world production experiences:

                  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...on-experiences

                  You can also look at the following blog (nesbot.com). The source has been posted by the blog author here (https://github.com/briannesbitt/nesbot.com).

                  Given the age of Play framework it has matured really fast and play 2.0 is around the corner with async http, anorm, and many other awesome features.

                  I have been a J2EE developer/architect for 12 years and have never come out so impressed with a framework.

                  It will be java developers wet dream if ROO is another robust alternative in the rapid agile programming world.
                  Last edited by retrofit; Dec 29th, 2011, 07:20 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Some cool Play sites. I created a packing list for my trips. Main thing I noticed is that all the testimonial sites had that Web 2.0 fresh look that I have been trying to get from my Roo project, but have troubles customizing the Roo pages. I just don't like in Play that all the classes extend framework specific classes. And I saw a lot of similarities with Grails in Play.

                    I agree, that in order for Roo to really stand out and be used in production, we need that same sort of functionality we get from Grails and Play. I know the Roo team can do it, they are brilliant people.

                    Mark

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I foresaw this time coming.... That is why Ive been working on jQuery-Roo integration.http://pragmatikroo.blogspot.com/201...velopment.html

                      Competition is always good. Welcome to Play!!

                      B.Roogards
                      JD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bytor99999 View Post
                        Main thing I noticed is that all the testimonial sites had that Web 2.0 fresh look that I have been trying to get from my Roo project, but have troubles customizing the Roo pages.
                        The best way to get a good interface IMHO is to get rid of the Roo tags and use spring framework tags or some other good tags in its place. You lose a bit of the main idea with Roo of course, but until there are Roo tags that actually are useful for production with specific demands on look and feel, that's the only way I've found.

                        I really feel that Roo should only generate structure (HTML) and no look (CSS) at all. Who wants all web sites to look the same anyway? I don't want premade themes. I want to make the design and frankly any attempts to "do it for me" is not helping. On the contrary, it's delaying me from getting what I need. What professional want premade looks to start with? This is thinking that is not what I believe the users want. What do you think?

                        I elaborated on these thoughts in the thread Who wants Roo to generate the look anyway?.
                        Last edited by MiB; Jan 8th, 2012, 06:21 PM.

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                        • #13
                          What is really needed is community driven front-end addons. Kind of like word press themes that you install and your whole crud is magically transformed. Its easier said than done, but that would be ideal. For some one who has limited experience of design, I would rather use a good theme than to do every thing from scratch.

                          What we need is an addon revolution and more integration and extension points in core roo.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            To each his own. Themes are inferior usually, unless they are extremely minimal yet useful. A minimal improved administration theme could be useful, but for a public site original design is commonly needed.

                            What I'm missing is the bare naked approach with only roo-managed data with minimal mark up and some hooks with all visuals left to the designer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If Spring can integrate Roo and Wavemaker I will be in hog heaven.

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