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  • #31
    hi ramin_farhanian
    I'd be really happy to read his feedbacks about the book and the samples.
    i am sure that the opinion of karl is gold, i am sure that other members can give us their appreciations

    i am almost to finish the chapter 4 (i lack of time )
    i hope the second edtion has the 3 levels beginners-intermedium-advanced
    of course more for the 2 last

    regards

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ramin_farhanian View Post
      It's a good idea. Mr. Karl Moore has recently finished the book. I'd be really happy to read his feedbacks about the book and the samples. Karl I am also interested to hear any Aspect Oriented training experience from your side...
      Seems like a good idea, might take some time to put this all together. I'll see if I have some time over the next week. AOP training experience? What specific information are you looking for?

      Originally posted by dr_pompeii View Post
      i am sure that the opinion of karl is gold, i am sure that other members can give us their appreciations
      , I don't know about gold, but I'm happy to give an opinion.
      Last edited by karldmoore; Aug 30th, 2007, 06:04 AM.

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      • #33
        about AOP

        Hi Karl,
        When it comes to training a junior developer, I've never succeeded telling anybody that this is an interceptor, here is the jointpoint so that she/he understands deeply. The word Aspect has always been an obstacle to them to start learning. This is my approach, I show them what is going on using JDK proxy. I try to simulate the before , after concept first and then try to come up with more complicated examples. I usually refactor the code and try to simulate the Pointcut in a "private boolean isPointCutAJointPoint()" method, I've seen that people come closer in this way and feel the vocabulary before they meet Spring AOP or AspectJ.
        I've seen lots of Spring AOP experiences in different weblogs. And I've always felt that people don't get the main points and gurus are providing some recipe for them. Right or wrong, this is what I've felt. I was wondering if you've ever had such experiments...

        All The Best,
        Ramin Farhanian

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ramin_farhanian View Post
          I also wish there could be good samples of Maven2 (and may be also Maven 1) and ant integration support. I find this the most important.
          IMO this goes more and more beyond the scope of such a book. For such questions documentation exists. A book should concentrate much more on long-living knowledge and so on concepts instead of tools.

          Jörg

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          • #35
            AspectJ book and the scope

            Dear Jörg,
            You are right. It's beyond the scope but not everybody can integrate technologies. I am not an AOP evangelist but I like the concept to be used widely. If Mr. Laddad believes that only gurus shall read the book, I have no objection as gurus have read references long before publishing the book. What makes a technology useful is its big community.
            Reading the book we can learn the AspectJ pointcut language precisely. If you don't find support to integrate it in your project easily, you will forget the language in a few weeks or months.
            I remember that Mr. alex had declared the uri of acegi taglibs in acegi reference but people couldn't read <%@ taglib prefix="authz" uri="http://acegisecurity.org/authz" %>
            between the lines, So an issue was added to "Spring Jira-Acegi project" to improve the documentation!!!...Well it was Acegi documentation not JSP tag library tutorial but Acegi needs to grow its community. I like AspectJ to grow its community too...
            All The Best,
            Ramin Farhanian

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ramin_farhanian View Post
              I remember that Mr. alex had declared the uri of acegi taglibs in acegi reference but people couldn't read <%@ taglib prefix="authz" uri="http://acegisecurity.org/authz" %>
              between the lines, So an issue was added to "Spring Jira-Acegi project" to improve the documentation!!!...Well it was Acegi documentation not JSP tag library tutorial but Acegi needs to grow its community.
              Yes indeed, I think I raised the JIRA issue about this . It's very hard however to cater for all users, you could extend this to include information about developing aspects in NetBeans, IDEA, Eclipse, etc....... They could be books by themselves. If the information is out there however, it might be nice to link it in the appendix.
              Last edited by karldmoore; Aug 30th, 2007, 06:04 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ramin_farhanian View Post
                When it comes to training a junior developer, I've never succeeded telling anybody that this is an interceptor, here is the jointpoint so that she/he understands deeply. The word Aspect has always been an obstacle to them to start learning. This is my approach, I show them what is going on using JDK proxy. I try to simulate the before , after concept first and then try to come up with more complicated examples. I usually refactor the code and try to simulate the Pointcut in a "private boolean isPointCutAJointPoint()" method, I've seen that people come closer in this way and feel the vocabulary before they meet Spring AOP or AspectJ.
                IMHO, it's hard for someone to have a deep understand about anything by just telling them about it. It's only when they actually play with the technology, experiment with it, break it that they begin to understand the details. Is there actually much to the terminology? Isn't it the same when you try to explain to someone what a class or an interface is?
                Last edited by karldmoore; Aug 30th, 2007, 06:03 AM.

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                • #38
                  Thanks guys for all your suggestions. I am glad to see that most suggestions are inline with what I am working on.

                  As for Maven coverage, the plan is to use an appendix in a similar way the first edition did for Ant coverage. This allows the core material to concentrate on concepts and let an appendix provide all needed information to ensure that users can build and deploy applications successfully.

                  I am also using Acegi (replacing JAAS) and other new technologies wherever possible.

                  -Ramnivas

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I am also using Acegi (replacing JAAS) and other new technologies wherever possible.
                    excelent , thanks!

                    i dont know if this is silly, i dont finish read the book yet, but if posible make chapters with hibernate and SWF of course working with AOP, it would be great

                    if the author can make after a book about acegi, pls do it

                    thanks

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      About AspectJ in action

                      Dear Ramnivas,
                      I am sure the community will love the book. Thank you very much.
                      I have something else in my mind as well. I wish there was a brief history of the evolution of AOP in Java EE & answers to a few questions like these :
                      When, what and why of "AOP alliance"
                      What made AspectWerkz and AspectJ merge ?
                      Privileged Aspects, patterns of usage, "how not to misuse the potential power?"
                      Runtime vs Compile time advises, "Pros & Cons"
                      Runtime vs Compile time advises, "which one is good for what?"
                      What was the reason that Spring AOP came to existence? Was it essential?
                      Why do people most often use Spring AOP just for Transaction Management?
                      The role of IDE. Is it possible to use aspectJ without AspectJ Development Tools like AJDT?
                      What is it that we can do with aspects that sounds impossible or too hard without it?
                      Spring AOP, AspectJ and JBoss AOP, where are they headed?
                      Sun Microsystem & AOP
                      Statistics about different usages all around the world. How epidemic is it now?

                      All The Best,
                      Ramin Farhanian
                      Last edited by ramin_farhanian; May 29th, 2007, 11:15 AM. Reason: just a thought

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                      • #41
                        Karl, The Omnipresent

                        Originally posted by karldmoore View Post
                        Yes indeed, I think I raised the JIRA issue about this . It's very hard however to cater for all users, you could extend this to include information about developing aspects in NetBeans, IDEA, Eclipse, etc....... They could be books by themselves. If the information is out there however, it might be nice to link it in the appendix.
                        Of course, You are omnipresent Karl. I see you everywhere. And you are right. I should have extended this. I shall come up with a weblog.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ramin_farhanian View Post
                          Of course, You are omnipresent Karl. I see you everywhere. And you are right. I should have extended this. I shall come up with a weblog.
                          Hehe, I guess it's better than being described as a bad smell you can't get rid of .
                          Last edited by karldmoore; Aug 30th, 2007, 06:03 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Karl, the omnipresent

                            Karl this is a compliment . I wish there were more people like you in this world. I rarely meet people who even like their job...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ramin_farhanian View Post
                              Karl this is a compliment . I wish there were more people like you in this world. I rarely meet people who even like their job.
                              No I appeciated it, thanks for the kind words .
                              Last edited by karldmoore; Aug 30th, 2007, 06:03 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I wish there were more people like you in this world. I rarely meet people who even like their job.
                                i am agree too,
                                how many times in the job you are in trouble and other enjoy your pain?

                                yes karl, how many times you save my skin with your golden knowledge ?

                                your effort and dedication is really appreciate by me

                                thanks so much for all friend!!!!

                                best wishes

                                p.d: is an acegi book out there???

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