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  • $2790 for Spring certification? Are there any alternatives?

    I just had a chat session with the VMware people. In order to become Spring certified, you apparently have to take one of THEIR courses, which costs $2790. Does anyone know of an alternative? Do people in India pay those kind of prices?

  • #2
    Originally posted by bobheath View Post
    I just had a chat session with the VMware people. In order to become Spring certified, you apparently have to take one of THEIR courses, which costs $2790. Does anyone know of an alternative? Do people in India pay those kind of prices?
    Hi Bob,

    An alternative would be to take a course in India indeed. The SpringSource courses are provided by SpringPeople over there and cost Rs. 59,500 which equals about $1080.

    Comment


    • #3
      It is widely reported that India software people are paid $7/hour which corresponds to $14K/year on a 2000 hour work year. That is a pretty stiff price to pay for ONE cert! Apparently the body shops and the body shops' corporate clients here in the US pay for the course if the student is in India. It would be nice if some corporate clients here in the US would provide a pathway for US workers to become certified without having to pay such an OUTRAGEOUS price.

      Of course, corporate subsidies wouldn't be necessary if VMware and Spring wasn't putting their development costs on the back of the US worker who is trying to become certified.

      As it turns out, the restricting factor of becoming certified is not the technical challenges of the technology. It is the OUTRAGEOUS costs of the certification.
      Last edited by bobheath; Jan 28th, 2013, 02:38 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey,
        This is James, I want to ask that Is this discount also available in other countries. Can you give a link that enlist the cost associated with different countries in the world. Thank you!

        Comment


        • #5
          Bob —

          We know that our certification prices are high compared to the industry, and we’re working on that.
          It does make it tougher for independents like yourself since they often do not have access to corporate subsidy.

          That said, we run a business here. We employ a lot of expensive, industry leading engineers that donate their work to the community.
          You are getting industry leading software, and a whole lot more, for nothing. Services like this are one way we pay those engineers to produce the software you enjoy for free, since we don’t charge for a license. Lots of people in the industry think that is, in fact, pretty amazing - and they express their gratitude often. Something you might consider.

          Lastly, I can appreciate your frustration but not your language.
          Clean it up or you will be barred from this forum permanently.

          So please edit your post, now, to remove the offensive language -- or we will do it for you, and very likely ban you permanently.

          If you have any questions, please refer to the "conduct" section in the terms of use on vmware.com:
          http://www.vmware.com/communities/co...rms/index.html

          Comment


          • #6
            phumphrey, I removed the accusation to VMware and Spring. I sincerely appreciate your prompt response to my complaint. The original question was posted almost a month ago.

            I do understand that you run a business, as with the rest of corporate America, that complains about the lack of qualified US STEM workers and the need for foreign workers. Are you telling us that raising certification fees on only US STEM workers is the way you intend to make money? If so, pricing us out of the market is no solution. Why not charge $1,000,000 for US STEM workers per cert! That way, maybe the people from India could become certified for free?

            It is quite CURIOUS that VMWare and the rest of corporate America erect OUTRAGEOUS barriers for US STEM workers to prevent US STEM workers from becoming certified, and then makes certification for people from India VERY, VERY accommodating. Is it possible that VMware does not want US STEM workers to be certified? Ya think?!

            While I "appreciate" your "sincere" apology, sincerity would be more believable if you guys would do something about it.

            I expect that censorship may be the only way to address this complaint.
            Last edited by bobheath; Jan 28th, 2013, 02:54 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's not "curious" - it's business. I don't think it's too difficult for you to imagine their might be other reasons why costs for US cert is high. Most of the developers we target work for large enterprise and have access to subsidy. Sadly, you don't seem to fall into that category, which is why you are frustrated.

              That said, the certification team is aware of the issue and is working on some solutions.
              Stay tuned, try being positive, you may be pleasantly surprised in the near future.

              Comment


              • #8
                Online courses and certification costs are the same whether the audience is in India or the US. My understanding the reason is not difficult at all. It is contrived to reduce the number of US STEM workers who are certified and increase the number of Indian workers that are certified. That is business.

                Other "businesses" engage in the same behavior of erecting barriers for US STEM workers and being very accommodating to workers in India because increasing the number of Indian workers while reducing the number of US workers reduces labor costs. That is business TOO!

                Comment


                • #9
                  SpringSource Certification

                  Originally posted by bobheath View Post
                  Online courses and certification costs are the same whether the audience is in India or the US. My understanding the reason is not difficult at all. It is contrived to reduce the number of US STEM workers who are certified and increase the number of Indian workers that are certified. That is business.

                  Other "businesses" engage in the same behavior of erecting barriers for US STEM workers and being very accommodating to workers in India because increasing the number of Indian workers while reducing the number of US workers reduces labor costs. That is business TOO!
                  Hi Bob,

                  I understand the point you make and understand the issue. The difference in pricing for courses in India / US is an economical reason. When you compare the course fees of Indian, Eastern European, US, Dutch and more country trainings you will notice differences. These prices vary depending on the economical situation of a country. Our intention is definitely not too make it harder for US workers to become certified, instead we understand that a larger group of certified Spring developers contributes to the rapid development of the open source product Spring.

                  The prices of our courses are dependent on the average wage of developers per country, the cost of a local trainer, the cost of renting a training location/laptops/beverages and course material for four days. All these factors contribute to on the one hand a higher cost picture in the US compared to for example India for conducting a training. On the other hand we try to make the weight of the costs for developers equal all over the world depending on the average wage of developers / training budgets per company.

                  When looking at the certification as a standalone product I fully understand your point since $2790 is not comparable to the $1000 approximately for just the certification. However the certification is an integral part of our program to educate, train and prepare developers. Not only does the certification stand for 'I passed the Spring exam' it also ensures companies that a developer has fully completed the official 4-day training by SpringSource.

                  So the difference in fee is the difference in cost for the 4-day training that includes a certification and prices vary between countries because of above reasons.

                  I hope this answers your question,

                  Mark Baars

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Corporate America is erecting barriers for US workers becoming trained and certified

                    Mark, first of all, the cost of production of ONLINE courses are the same whether the audience is in India or the US.

                    Mark, for classroom courses, individuals don't pay for those courses, corporations pay for the courses. And for the courses in India and the US, CORPORATE AMERICA pays for the courses.

                    The price, whether the course is taught in India or the US, is outside the financial viability of the individual developer.

                    So, the price structure constructed by VMware, encourages Corporate America to train workers in India and discourages Corporate America from training workers in the US, as if Corporate America needs an excuse to train Indian workers instead of US workers. Because we know Corporate America doesn't need an excuse to show favoritism to Indian workers. Indian workers are CHEAPER. Hiring Indian workers instead of US workers reduces labor costs. As phumphries said, IT'S BUSINESS.

                    You can construct whatever convoluted justification that you want. The fact of the matter is that VMware and the rest of Corporate America is erecting barriers that discourage US STEM workers from being trained in emerging technologies, and they are being very accommodating for the training of developers in India who will later come to the US and take US jobs that a US STEM worker would have otherwise had.

                    Corporate America is claiming that there is a shortage of US STEM workers in order to justify the H-1B visa, and they are constructing the training and certification programs to GUARANTEE that there is a shortage of qualified US STEM workers.
                    Last edited by bobheath; Jan 31st, 2013, 01:07 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Spring Education

                      Hi Bob,

                      First of all apologies that your post has been removed. Your post probably matched some criteria of our anti-spam system. The forums are open to everyone to express their opinions on Spring topics. We have no intention to remove your posts on this certification topic.

                      The prices of our online courses are based on time zones. The US online course is for US employees, however no one is excluded to join if you would be willing to accept the time/language differences. In Asia pacific we only have an Australian online course available at the moment.

                      Our courses are indeed aimed at corporations. These are professional 4-day courses taught by Spring developers with at least 5 years of experience. This is professional education for developers. Taking the training will ensure corporations that their developers will have all the knowledge they need on developing with Spring after the course. We try to encourage developers worldwide to take our classes and to become Spring Certified.

                      For individual developers we have other educational products like the free online documentation available here:
                      http://www.springsource.org/documentation

                      We have online Spring tutorials available here:
                      http://www.springsource.org/tutorials

                      And we also provide bi-weekly webinars for our Spring community, e.g.:
                      http://www.springsource.org/node/3800

                      It is not possible for us to provide these 4-day courses for the same price all over the world based on cost differences. We are also not making a difference between our Spring developers worldwide. An Indian developer/corporation will experience the price quite similar to how a US developer experiences the price of a professional training course.

                      If you feel that the price of a Core Spring training is too steep at the moment I would encourage you to:

                      - Learn the Online Spring Documentation
                      - Learn the Online Spring Tutorials
                      - Attend our Bi-weekly Webinars
                      - Check our Spring Training promotion page often: http://mylearn.vmware.com/portals/ww...d_discount=293 (sometimes 30% discount on courses)
                      - Watch the videos on our Youtube SpringSource developer channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SpringSourceDev
                      - Attend free Spring events
                      - Check the VMware free eLearning material: http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/pla...611&ui=www_edu
                      - Buy a Spring in Action book

                      Next to the software that we are giving away for free we also try to create a lot of free educational content for our developers. Our intention is not to discourage anyone from becoming a good Spring developer.

                      Best,

                      Mark

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